How does the new Red Raven stack up to other 4K cameras? A Price Comparison.
Jarred Land, “The Raven doesn’t replace Scarlet, It’s a new category in our line up. Raven is a younger, hungrier, more “spirited” member of the RED family with a bit of a chip on his shoulder ready to take on the entire sub-$10k market with images that you will be incredibly proud of.”
This morning Jarred Land the RED Camera leader spilled the beans on the new RED Raven camera. The official release was supposed to be this Friday but I guess he couldn’t wait. What we do know is the fixed Canon EF mount Raven brain will cost $5950 but thats it. No official specs yet but here is what I believe they are.
- Fixed Canon EF mount
- Dragon sensor with crop factor of 1.87 between APS-C and MFT
- RedCode compressed raw. At least capable of 5:1@24fps
- 4k@120fps
- integrated microphone and WiFi.
With this pricing I decided to see what camera or cameras are the in the same price range and it looks to me that the URSA Mini is the closest so far. Here is the break down for a simple shoot ready package.
RED RAVEN
- Red Raven 4K Brain $5950
- Touch Monitor $1450
- RED Mini Mag $850 each. You will need at least two = $1700
- Red Station Mini Mag $195
- Redvolt XL Module $1150
- Redvolt XL $350 You will need at least two = $700
- TOTAL $11,145
URSA MINI 4.6K
- URSA MINI 4.6K $4995
- Cfast 2.0 128GB Lexar. $342 each Need at least two = $684
- Atomos CFast Card Reader $49.95
- URSA Viewfinder $1495 (Might not need this but should get it.)
- Shoulder Mount Kit. $395
- Anton Bauer Batteries. Charger & plate kit. Two 14.47 93wh $1238 Anton Bauer $1239
- TOTAL $9199.95
This is a very basic pricing breakdown for the bare minimum package, but the URSA Mini 4.6K is still about $1900 less. However no one really thought you could get a RED 4K camera brain for $5950 or even close to that price. As for hardware for the RED Raven I didn’t add that in since RED really doesn’t have rigs anymore and Blackmagic has one for the URSA plus it’s cheap in comparison to something from Zacuto or Wooden Camera. By adding a rig the cost would go up by about a $1000 and if you also add a EVF then that would be another $2000. bringing the Red Raven closer $14K. The URSA Mini has the edge when it comes to accessories. URSA Viewfinder ($1495) and Shoulder Mount Kit ($395) That’s a great deal. RED accessories are expensive and you will need to buy more than two Redvolt XL’s at $350 each unless a third party solution comes around. RED Mini Mag ($850) is also pricey, but so is Cfast 2.0 however Cast price will drop over time and I don’t see the RED Mini Mag’s going down.
Lots of missing facts unfortunately when it comes to full specs of the Raven like Sensor, recording codec’s and frame rates. RedCode? ProRes? Outputs? All the true specifications will be released on Friday, September 25th. But what we do know is this camera could be a major disrupter if it can ship in a timely manner. Hate to say this but both BMD and RED have serious delivery issues and it could be a very painful wait for people that want one in the “near” future.
This post is more about price and not which camera is better. That’s for you to decide. I just want you to get a realistic perspective on what the actual cost is the Red Raven so you can decide if it’s a camera you can afford. $5950 is only the beginning.
As for competing with the C300 MKII I don’t see it. The $16,000 C300 MKII has features the Red Cameras don’t and it’s a strong documentary and run and gun camera with Dual Pixel AF and lowlight shooting. I think if you need those features the Raven isn’t for you.
How about the $8000 Sony FS7? Yep. I think Raven could have those buyers waiting to learn more.
I don’t think the Sony FS5 is a target because it’s out the door price is $5600 and that could change when it ships. All you need to shoot with the FS5 is a media card.
I’ll update this post as more specs come out. What other cameras do you think RED has it’s sites on?
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To be honest, I have never really been a RED guy. I mean I appreciated what it could do but I am throw down a bunch of cash and use out of the box kind of cinematographer. It’s great to see the comparisons and to see how RED is becoming more competitive, I still feel like paying $6000 for a paper weight is too high of a price for me. Not to mention all the add ons that you have to get exclusively through the manufacture, it’s a turn off. I am very intrigued though, especial with what I have seen from the URSA Mini. My thing is Erik if I can’t use it run and gun style than I can’t pick it up. Might look at renting these cameras for bigger or specific projects.
We shall see. I think a ready to shoot kit will be available and will run around the low $10K mark.
I can’t wait to see how them have this packaged.
Thanks for sharing. From the beginning I wanted a Red camera. They promised affordability but they took that high-road and the rest is history. I’m a committed GH4 user (thankful for the VLOG mistake last week) and love the small profile and system lenses and so on. I think I’m going to hold pat with my Panny. But, I do need a video-centric unit and this is where the door is open. I’ve been looking at the Ursa Mini as the means to do my thing in that space. Now, Red threatens to enter this space with Raven. Well, it’s better late than never.
I don’t know about all of the add-ons but if we can get 4K, features and high frame rates in the body with an EF mount. I just might punch my ticket. I guest we’ll see shortly.
I worry about delivery. They would need to ramp that up or the backorders will be very long.
I think the real force of RED is there Redcode codec, that’s a huge avantage if you don’t want you have your hard drive full of .DNG for exemple.
I’m excited about this Red move. I like renting the Red’s for feature work. I’ve been a Sony owner/user for years. I enjoy working with their cameras from an operators viewpoint. However I bought a BMD URSA last year. The way it looks for daylight shooting is amazing for a $6K camera. The new chip is better for low light, I haven’t purchased it yet. However I’ve been waiting for the viewfinder to arrive for almost a year. I know all manufactures wait to see what kind of orders they fill before mass production. I hope Red won’t be as bad, but I hear they are. Pretty much if you buy a body you’re gonna have to budget for all the goodies to make the camera work. The joke use to be; Sony…soon only not yet. Sony has gotten much better. There is more competition now.
Sounds a lot better than spending $16K on a camera that doesn’t record over 60fps, but I wish it had the MX sensor and was cheaper.
Hey there. I’m a Sony User. I have a question that Can we use another lcd or battery to reduce the price or not?
I agree Ahmad, there must be ways to reduce the total “minimum-price” …
But it is a tough one as they act a bit like Apple, modul-monopolizing !
What is there to do ?
You cannot use standard SSD-disks and You have to buy a Mini-Mag-Station
to pull the video-data out … to get other V-lock-batteries on (but some
will be to wide or whatever) You must buy the DSMC2 V-LOCK I/O EXPANDER !
So at least 850 $ for 120 GB + 195 $ for a SSD-station + 1900 $ for V-lock;
it still hits 8900 $ without screen (using wireless smartphone), handle or
any V-lock-batteries .
There was a guy at fstoppers.com who claims to buy Camera + essentials for
just 7548,69 $ and I’ve PM’ed him to yell how this is possible …
My personal bet, is that he only uses the Camera near AC-power-connections
and saves the V-lock & batteries ! You can buy a lot of tough AC-cable on
a wheel for more than 2000 $, but I’ll let You know if he responds to me .
And if YOU have discovered something new in this savings-field; I would be
gratefull to hear about it, yes ? OK 😉
CU
Thomas
PS :
The DSMC2 V-LOCK I/O EXPANDER at 1900 $ (!) gives access to this
________________________________________________________________
The V-lock for other batteries; except some does not fit …
• HDMI 1.2 output (Type A socket) 🙂 Plug in Your LCD here !
• 3G-SDI output (HD-SDI, 75 Ω BNC)
• CTRL & SYNC ports (2x 00B LEMO 4-Pin, Timecode and Genlock support)
• AUX Power output (P-Tap 2-Pin female)
• USB Power output (Type A, 5 V at 1.5 mA for powering HDMI transmitters or small mobile devices)
• Stereo Headphone output (3.5 mm jack)
• Stereo Analog input (3.5 mm jack) 🙁 XLR only in the 4000 $ expander
• DC Power input (DC IN)
I actually was dead set on getting the URSA Mini, but RED has always been my dream camera and after owning two Blackmagic cameras, I think its worth the extra $ for a camera with a proven track record.
Exactly the same here ! Not the 4,0 K … I wanted the Ursa Mini 4,6 K
(guess You were too ?) and then discovered the “Red Brain” …
What is there to do ?
You cannot use standard SSD-disks and You have to buy a Mini-Mag-Station
to pull the video-data out … to get other V-lock-batteries on (but some
will be to wide or whatever) You must buy the DSMC2 V-LOCK I/O EXPANDER !
So at least 850 $ for 120 GB + 195 $ for a SSD-station + 1900 $ for V-lock;
it still hits 8900 $ without screen (using wireless smartphone), handle or
any V-lock-batteries .
There was a guy at fstoppers.com who claims to buy Camera + essentials for
just 7548,69 $ and I’ve PM’ed him to yell how this is possible …
My personal bet, is that he only uses the Camera near AC-power-connections
and saves the V-lock & batteries ! You can buy a lot of tough AC-cable on
a wheel for more than 2000 $, but I’ll let You know if he responds to me .
And if YOU have discovered something new in this savings-field; I would be
gratefull to hear about it, yes ? OK 😉
CU
Thomas